Problems with others

if you have any issues or disputes plz dont leave the fac right then and there, talk it out first with that person instead of just leaving and turning the fac into a who wants to be a millionaire chat box because you left without notice at this moment in time communication can be our best friend

I agree fully.

well of course you do Dy your the one that mentioned it in the first place so i thought i would save you the trouble of mentioning it over and over till you got so frustrated you wanted to kill the guy next to you (pala) he always seems to get on the receiving end of your anger

lol, that's very thoughtful of you.

The fact that you would post something without all the details proves that you are only adding to the problem instead of helping with the solution.

You may think you know all the details about recent events, the "issues with other people" , but you don't. You have no idea what took place, you have one side only.

The problem is this and don't think it is anything else, because it isn't:

There are some faction members who only think of themselves. They do not include other faction members in things that other faction members need, except, and ONLY except, if they need other faction members to help them. They do not think of the faction at all, only themselves. And if you think it was a one-time only event, your sadly mistaken.

For people to be treat others that way, is not good for the faction as a whole. Otherwise what is the faction here for except to help each other. Or is it only for some to help some? Yes, some people are like that and you cannot force anyone. But to not discourage such bad behavior only encourages it.

So before you point fingers, before you jump to conclusions, before you blame someone for leaving, and before you post such a thing, you need to follow your own advice and talk to the persons involved - all of them not just one.

I poured my heart into this faction and have been called disloyal for leaving.
I tried my best and have been told I have damaged the faction by leaving.
I was told maybe I cared too much - so am I supposed to become like the ones who don't care about anyone but themselves? No thank you.

I never ever cried leaving a faction before this one. I left to retain my sanity but I guess that is not important to some.

P.S. Instead of being mad at the ones who left - try being mad at the ones who caused us to leave

I too am going to add to this .........Sometimes leaving without a word is to try avoid drama and people taking sides.
You will all sit and read this and Abby's remarks but you will say ....."that's not me I helped"
Be honest with yourselfs did you help if it was not for you?
Did you help when a member would say I need to do TT runs to get my gear?
I can honestly say I helped I ran several TT even though my gear and weapon were long done.
Instead of throwing stones at us that left look at the reasons behind it all.
We .....no wait I won"t speak for others I will speak for me I might of come back when I had a break one day this was a great faction.
Many of the people in it I liked alot and had fun with. It became frustrating when asking for help could not get it except by very few not like I asked for help for myself alot but on occasion I did and made it well known some of us needed some TT runs for 90 gear.
That last request was met with only could you help open the door.........not the run.Or bragging about doing the run when finished.
Well you still have members in there who need TT runs one suggestion I have is help them or they too will look elsewhere for the help.
Instead of being thankfull for all we did for this faction comments like this are now coming out ....its a shame for us to see and read this.
It does not encourage one to take a break and come back one day it shows we had no value with this faction I find.

Ly
I do believe that if someone has a problem with someone else they need to address that person. That being said I also believe that there has to be support throughout an organization to instigate that kind of communication. To sit around and belittle the ones that left will not help the underlying problem of selfishness. I blame all of us left for not seeing this coming or for seeing and turning a blind eye so as to ignor the situation. Its time to grow up now for all of us. Its a dark day when we blame those that helped the most with the downfall we have created.
For you to bring this up now is gut renching. Did you go and talk to them? Did you ask why? Or did you just jump the gun and start to point fingers? Well if you point one there are 3 pointing back at you. I think of a fac as a family and down home family dont do that to family. nuf said.

Alright, I'm going to put this in as plain of terms as I possibly can.

1. I read Lyante's post several times. SEVERAL times. And you know what? I don't see any names. In fact, as far as I can tell, he's speaking to those still IN the faction, with words that are generally common sense. He is in NO way finger pointing. And I will go so far as to take any finger-pointing aimed at him as being entirely towards myself. As above comments show, he is merely echoing my words and posting them here. To be honest, he probably made more light of them than I would have, if I'd have posted. I wouldn't have posted anyway, but the thought was there.

2. Pala made a post encouraging people to help each other. He has talked about it in faction chat several times. Short of a points based system awarding people for helping, I'm not sure how much more he could encourage it. And let's face it, if someone is not an officer (and therefore not liable to lose their position) the ONLY way to really discourage them is to threaten to boot them. How is that helpful? People just get butthurt over it and will leave anyway.

3. Understand someone's situation before you label them a selfish user. Really. I'm not going into any names, but I can think of many reasons why people want to do stuff alone. I am one of them. I'll tell you why, I don't deal well with people. I really, truly don't. I am not a nice person. I don't care what anyone thinks of me, save closest friends. It is very hard for me to get along with people, especially if they do something I don't like. I've seen that many times in factions, this one included. But hey, best way for me to deal with it is to not get involved. Or only do so when needed. I don't help that much. Not in ways people can see. I stepped down as director because of this, after much thought and weaning myself away from it.

Also, some classes feel a bit useless if they aren't clerics or barbs. Because really, if you have those two, the others are just extras in many cases. Sure, venos can lure, but many times you don't even need them. I speak from experience, there are pulling skills for almost everyone with genies. There are also other reasons why some people spend exclusive time with each other. I shouldn't have to elaborate on why.

If people who play better alone or with just select few are labeled selfish, then you must also mean me. I take no offense. I'm a f**king big girl. If someone has a problem with me, either talk to me or ignore me. I know many others have said the same.

As for those who have left, it's been made very clear to Pala and myself and others still that you are wanted back. But you know? It's kind of hard and awkward to talk to someone who just left when you feel like they may be mad at you. It takes a lot of nerve to talk to someone you're afraid might be in a bad mood with all that apparently happened to them.

If you need a break from faction, or from a position, or from the game, then just say "I need to step away and sort things out." It doesn't require leaving. When it comes down to it, leaving is always a severe demonstration of dissatisfaction. It's the biggest way of saying "I'm not happy" in game, and it makes everyone wonder why. But many won't PM that person, because they're afraid of making things worse or hearing harsh words, or just of feeling useless.

But yeah, coming to a close on this, Lyante named no names and pointed no fingers. He was just asking that everyone in the faction talk things out in the future instead of leaving, because he thought it might help. We had a long talk in faction chat about doing this and helping each other more.

If anyone is making it worse, it's not him.

Throw whatever you have at me. I'm not afraid of words and opinions. I do ask that if it is particularly volatile, that you put it in my inbox. There is enough drama here, and what I've added is the calmest way I've found of expressing my thoughts to those involved.

When i posted this abby, i wasn't referring to any of ppl that have recently left. I posted this because Dy mentioned this in fac yesterday afternoon. And abby youve known me for a long time, you know that i am not a hateful person except at ppl who really annoy me. I merely posted this for everyone in the fac to remind them that communication is what we need most right now. I still cant believe i posted one thing and didnt refer to anybody that left in the slightest and i get my head chewed off, now thats a first i wasnt tryin to make trouble and i did!

ps. do i get a cookie for causing drama without meaning to?

Dy Dy Dy
I am not calling anyone a selfish player because they want to play by themselves. I am saying the selfishness comes from players who constantly ask for help and never return the favor. And its not just the clerics, I hear the barbs vent sometimes. They are the ones who have to pay repair bills and for charms. I could care less if someone want to do things on there own lord knows i like to do some solo mob killing, but how many of us offer help to those that help us constantly. Believe me I put even more blame on myself than I do the rest.

The issue is not the lack of help or ppl who prefer to solo the game, I believe.
I have no problem if someone likes to play alone or is not very helpful. But it gets bad when those ppl keep asking for help without being of any benefit to the fac themselves.

We have to understand that they are not even embarrassed to do so, and mere talking wont reach their tiny black hearts. The only right thing to do is to refuse to help or tell them very clearly wats the problem. That would require lots of coarse language. Leaving the fac might very well be the smaller drama.

If it continues like this however, the fac will soon consist only of solo ppl. Oh the irony, the valuable ones are leaving and the maggots get no help anymore.
So leaving is not really fixing anything. Come back and lets use force and an iron fist to make it better. Or lets find alternative approaches. <.<

I say we reward those who help, by helping. Especially if it gets to time intensive stuff like TT or BH. We cannot afford to waste our resources on the others anyway.

Yes, we have people who ask for help and don't give any. But we have several who offer it whenever they can and ask little in return. Harsh words are going to lead to hurt feelings. I know. I am full of harsh words, but I hold them back in faction. If someone is a taker, just don't help them and PM them why if you wish. I can name a lot more givers in this faction, or at least people who don't constantly take.

My original point remains: Lyante didn't post this aimed at anyone in particular. He addressed, quite clearly, those still present. How this was taken as a bad thing does not cease to amaze me.

People are putting everything in a personal perspective. They are getting hurt over things not even aimed at them, and that needs to stop, whether in forums, faction chat, or otherwise.

It's a game, a social game, but a game nonetheless. We are going to have disagreements, but that is how it is.

In my point of view, this faction is not for everyone. This faction will NEVER be perfect. Perfection does not exist. One can come and leave when ever they please. One should not feel pressured to stay in the faction. If one leaves without saying a word than so be it. Can not change that person's views and opinions of the faction. If they want to come back, they are always welcomed to come back. Simple as that.

I think of all the post i have read, I agree with loo the most ,, i mean i think the members R the fact and if the members aren't happy ,,,,why should they stay,, i have never had a prob with members leaving especially if they feel for (1) they r not getting the help they need ,,, (2) they don't like the members ( 3) inactives , etc etc so many reasons, a person cant be loyal to something that is no way a benefit to them in anyway. If ppl have a prob I think instead of this bullshit whispering in the fact ,,, (which i still laugh at) lets talk it out even if we get into arguments ya know we;re human AND i assume and do say assume we're all adults whether young or old.
i think their members here that hate me and some that like me but hey,,, that's life. We have lost many members in the space of a month ,, many,,, and i saw all if not most go , some friends, maybe we need stop pointing fingers @ ppl that leave and look ourselves ....

who ever started this post is an idiot , this is not a slam wall, and the forum is being abused!!! the forum is for the betterment of the faction and the only thing its done is piss everyone off, made poeple point fingers, and make people say stuff thats impulsive and if they really sat down and thought hard about they wouldnt say so bluntly or without empathy. the game for the most part is to excape into a vertiral reality which is its own socal network, people go there not to deal with druma, personaly as soon as u become this attatched to any thing its time to reavaluate what it really mean to ur life. and farther more the way u stop having this druma is to stop letting idiots in the faction by which i mean u cant have a large and high lvl group and everyone like eachother, its one or the other !!! NOW Drop this petty chating back and worth, erase this thing and lets move on with our lifes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two notes:

1. The person who started it didn't intend to slam anyone. At all. This has been confirmed several times. Unfortunately it was taken that way.

2. I believe only administrators can completely erase a post. The original poster may edit their post, but cannot edit comments left. That is up to each individual to do.

thread hijack! We now discuss BH.

I cannot resist, these two letters force me to reply.
Having the BH for 4 days is no excuse for leaving. BH is up to individuals and not responsibility of the fac. Good luck finding one who handles this otherwise.
People might volunteer to help, but if you look closely in the center of archo, there are plenty of ppl who gladly squad and share the expenses for wines. Dont tell me someone seriously didnt get it done for 1 day, let alone 4.
All it takes is a bit patience and mats/coins for wine. When ppl lack either of those, you cannot blame the fac for it.

end of hijack

the actual point here..is that this is a pissing contest that is headed upwind..and we are all getting spread by our own lack of common sense.

now i dont think im old enough in the faction to impose any kind of judgement on any or all of you...but there needs to be some structure to make guilds/factions work.

Dy- u take the comments by most of the ppl here as attacks and u start nitpicking on what ly said when the real problem is that we have some issues and need to address them.

Abby/Jul and even hotheaded mike and rest that left- I usually try to stay clear of the drama that is ALWAYS going on in any fac in any game so i didn't know why u guys left..harsh way to react, perhaps...but to each their own..you have always come thru for me so I know you guys cared about helping the faction grow.

to the rest...try to find a way to actually help solve some of our problems instead of coming to this forum to bicker.

so what are our options? we can start point system to encourage ppl to do TT or help in FBs
we can pick a couple days a week when for example : FBs can be run from 7-12pm eastern usa time for 19-51 on mondays. tuesday can be a free day when noone is required to help and no help should be expected. wednesday can be fb 59-89 from same 7-12pm east. thursady like tuesday is a free for all..friday can be TT run from 8-12pm with point system..1-2 pts per boss which u can accumulate then bid on a drop that u need (worked wonders on World of Warcraft). saturday is free 4 all again and sunday can be worked on..

my point is that it can be where ppl are more encouraged to help vs the help or else.

on TT..drops should all be kept by a bank. on sunday,or w/e is a better time..we will have an auction with the points ppl have accumulated and we can then bid on what we need. its just a rough draft..but im sure this can benefit the faction.

I would strongly sudgest that you make up and ,in my opinion, mend and try to get the "lost" players back because they were a very big part of the backbone of this faction.

and think positive..negativity is mine!

be good

now kiss and make up!

"Dy- u take the comments by most of the ppl here as attacks and u start nitpicking on what ly said when the real problem is that we have some issues and need to address them."

Nitpicking what Ly said? I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion, since it's pretty clear I am defending what he said as not being directed at any of those who obviously take offense to it. Yes, many did attack him for doing it just by posting the things they did. I won't ignore that, it's simply not fair to throw all that emo in someone's direction when they never meant to hurt anyone. It's unreasonable and childish.

Also, I asked that they direct their anger at me instead of him, since I started a conversation in fac chat asking anyone who had problems to please discuss it before leaving, and he made this post because he thought it was a good idea. Personally, it doesn't bother me to have people pissed off at me. I just prefer that they be willing to debate points in a civil manner and agree to disagree if it comes to that.

As for the problems that need to be addressed, yeah, I covered some of that and suggested a points based system for rewards, though it would be hard to keep up with involving so many players.

K all lets stop the bickering and chatting about this. It has gotten old really fast.
Some have some very good ways to maybe improve the issues and in one way maybe
this has been good, others have finally stepped up and given some idea's.
We all have different opinions and personalities, a diverse group for sure. What
we all just have to do is respect each others opinions and not force our own .
A suggestion only sorta follows what some have said........
Monday /Thurs/ run the BH for all who still need.(not always possible to find squad for higher lvl in faction)
Wed /Sunday call it boss day for anyone needing boss's other then FB one's
and FB'S as they come along.
And if more constructive communication woud go on in faction chat and here well
this would improve the faction alot.
I will hussssh now as I said above enough said on this topic .

Good Grief people! It's only a game.