Luring/Pulling

deleted because I'm just a dumb girl.

I totally agree. Though I have seen some people pull successfully with a genie, it's not always a sure thing. Granted, sometimes a bug can cause a failed pull with a pet (I once sent magmite to pull boss, he got hit by another mob on the way and for some reason turned and hit that mob O.o) but overall, pulling with a pet is much less likely to draw aggro. Also, with some bosses getting behind a line of mobs, getting close enough with a genie isn't an option. So why pull the mobs one at a time with the genie when you could get a veno with pet to grab the boss itself?

There are other reasons genie pulls might be less effective. For instance, say you are pulling one mob from a densely populated area that has patrols or moving mobs. Getting in range for genie pull may also get you in range for an unseen patrol. And the excuse "well if you pay attention..." doesn't really apply, but I see it happen all the time.

One problem I noticed a lot of players having with veno pulling is that they hate the time it takes to do one at a time. However, pulling multiple targets will often end in disaster. So imo, it's better to let the veno do her(his?) job and take your time, rather than impatiently running toward mobs as soon as pet is sent and pulling everything. >.>

Also, my genie can only have 4 skills. I don't want to waste a slot for a pull skill when I can just use a pet. ^^

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For the normal, quick pull I use lightning chaser, simply because I have it and need it for other purposes. But I guess any genie skill with a bit range and damage/status effect works more or less.
I wonder what is so special about earthflame. Anybody care to enlighten me?

afaik there is no genie skill which enables to pull single mobs out of a group of mobs, without getting the whole bunch of them. That remains the job of a veno. A genie therefore can never replace a veno as a puller, and neither can the ranged classes.

Unfortunately impatient squadmembers, usually archers or clerics, cause wipes and trouble despite knowing that it is very likely that they screw up pulling. There are plenty of locations where this happens almost every single run, yet they insist to do it over and over and over again. I am afraid they still dont really understand that aggro is not as simple as dealing damage to a mob. I believe there is a guide on this forum somewhere.

Nevertheless some venos like to pull in situations where it is not necessary. Lets say a lone mob wandering alone or a bunch of mobs which could be aoed. I think the higher the level of the squadmates, the higher the probability that it gets a aoe party. That makes pulling kinda pointless, but time is money.
If more venos would use the other strengths of their class, like DD, debuffing, purging, aoe, there wouldnt be so many sad lonely venos wandering around past 80.

I also prefer if I pull nob and pole in fb69 myself instead of the veno. As a polite person, I let them usually. But many times the bosses end up between me and the clerics, which means they are closer to the aoe and get more damage. A small factor, yet it might be worth considering with bad or lower lvl squads.

I really think the Veno's ability to properly pull one target at a time while keeping the rest of the squad safe is irreplaceable no matter what skills they give genies. And people who are so arrogant to think that the little fairy flying around them is gonna do the job safely is ignorant. I've seen too many "accidents" happen in squads cause of genie pulling. Thus this brings back the "importance" of the veno to a squad needed enviroment: TT, FB, ect. and thus there is no excuse for lonely venos who feel left out and worthless if they and others really understand the importance of the veno class. This adds volumes to thier already high importance with status effects they bring to a squad fight. A properly skilled veno is a high valued asset to any squad.
Thank you

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I applaud you, Dark! I totally agree that too much help is producing hordes of high level noobs. I think help is best given by advice or by helping with tasks which really require several squadmates. Many people have problems because their build is screwed up. Helping them would just make a reroll more painful or a restat more expensive later on.
I also play a HA veno at lvl 60 atm, because it is more challenging and interesting than the common builds.

But to get back on topic, afaik the Earth Flame was nerfed a few updates ago, and also aggros adjacent mobs. tbh I never saw a succesful EF pull in action and I wonder if it is still possible. Since that would really diminish a veno's role in a squad.

i defer to my previous comment and also state that even as somewhat effective as genie skills may be they lack the time length that the original class skills have. I feel genies tend to be overrated because of this, but they have uses. And of all the classes to get left out the most when it came to certain class exclusive skills venos got left out the most. I'll take a good veno anyday and that's not because my wife is a veno that i say that >.>

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Amen to all of the above.

Venos got screwed by the genies for a while, but people are beginning to realize that the "noob" class (as they so often call venos) is incredibly important for squads to have, and can be easily screwed up. And imo, if it's easy to mess up, it's not a noob class at all. All classes can be played poorly to just get by, but it takes skill to make use of all of a character's attributes.

As for genies and their skills, some of my favorite skills are really just squad savers or things to help kill a boss faster.

My top 4:

Tangling Mire (decrease defense on target, there are others that do this as well. It stacks with amp dmg and pet skill pierce, too.)
Leaf Dance (increase crit strike)
Holy Path (lol, everyone loves it, but I wish it still applied to the entire party...)
Tai Chi (can help a party out in a tight spot when heals are coming slow)

I have several genies with different skills (picked most of them up pretty cheap) and have played around with abilities, but those are my picks so far.

Let me know how your HA build works, Mary. I have been thinking of converting, but so far LA works for me. Would be nice to have that extra phys def, though...